Usaama Rahim
UPDATE: Just two days after sharing this post, Boston police shot and killed a terror suspect who vowed to kill an American cartoonist/activist. (Meanwhile, internet tough-guys are still calling me a “coward” and a “pussy” for continuing our original focus on the Bible, while others are calling me a “hypocritcal Islamaphobic racist”. Because… well, of the post below.)
I believe in religious freedom – the right for anyone to worship whatever gods they choose to believe in (as long as those beliefs do not infringe on the rights and freedom of others). I also believe in free speech – the power to challenge rational societies into asking important questions. Lastly, I believe in the right to live without fear. Sadly, as is the case with many religions, these concepts are often mutually exclusive.
After a great deal of consideration and wise counsel, I’ve decided to cancel the controversial Kid’s Koran project we’ve been and hinting about over the past year. Why?
1. Because of a small group of fringe maniacal “radical” bullies who equate the transfer of lead and pigments into shapes on paper as blasphemy – punishable by death (more below).
2. Two of my collaborators are ex-Muslims living in areas of Europe with extreme tension at the moment and are no longer comfortable being associated with the project (more below).
3. We have been receiving more suspicious “phishing” attempts than usual, coming from Arabic (not necessarily Muslim) “characters” offering to buy our pages, inviting us to speak at events, wanting to conduct in-person interviews, etc… (As long as we first provide our personal information for verification of payments.)
4. The more I thought about it, the more I realized how much time and energy any “response” would require – taking us away from the primary focus of this page and related projects that are focused on the Bible and Christianity (the majority religion/culture that most regularly affects me as an American.) In short, there are only so many hours in the day, and I need to pick my battles strategically. (After all, this is not my day job.)
It’s not just Islam that is a problem.
It has been one thing to receive death threats from Christians over our past books on the Bible, but I’ve never really taken those threats all-too-seriously as they seem to be mostly the blusterings of a religious majority that has gotten used to bullying minorities of all types, the sort of stuff you hear in a bar when somebody insults a Christian. However, I’ll admit – I do take the threats from militant/radical/extemist Islamic fundamentalists much more seriously. For someone who spends a large amount of time illustrating and speaking about the challenges posed by any religion, I don’t think this makes me a bigot, but a realist, as more and more cartoonists are murdered, threatened, and silenced for good.
Some people may be willing to die for their religion, but I gave up the intoxicating dreams of martyrdom when I was finally able to escape the less-violent-but-similarly-oppressive confines of Christianity. In short, I like my head right where it is, thank you very much! There’s simply too much to live for in this life, without needing to hope for the fairy tale promises of an afterlife that nobody has ever proven to exist.
When the Kid’s Koran was almost complete at the first of the year, our tw0 ex-Muslim contributors/consultants on the project became very concerned over terrorist attacks against satirical cartoonist in their home countries. So, we paused to think more carefully about security, risks, etc… As we finished the project, more bloggers were being killed overseas and we received the first shipment of galley/preview copies the week before the attempted attacks in Texas earlier this month. These events much closer to home suddenly brought the apprehension of my overseas friends into a new perspective. While we might seem paranoid or jumping to conclusions to the average American office worker, the dangers and risks feel quite real, personal, and infuriating to each of us as illustrators, bloggers, and “activists” who are critical of organized religions. At the end of the day, the decision was not mine alone, but a collective choice by all of our families and (few) friends who were aware of the project. The consensus was simple, “Choose your battles wisely and live to fight another day.”
“Why didn’t I choose to depict Muhammad having sex? The answer is simple: I don’t want to get blown up with explosives. I am afraid of angering Muslims but not afraid of angering Jews and Christians, so I choose to depict the Judeo-Christian God instead. It seems extremely obvious to me, but so many people asked.” – Sarah Silverman
Yes, many people will choose to call me (or Penn Jillette or Sarah Silverman) a hypocrite for “only challenging the Bible” or a coward for “giving in to the enemy,” (as they use fake troll profiles to post random existing drawings of Muhammad to show how tough they are). Yet, it’s quite a different matter to publish an entire book of original illustrations that not only questions the teachings of a long-dead prophet and absentee deity, but also challenges the culture of modern Islam today. Honestly, we were less worried about the three illustrations of Muhammad than we were about the overall concept of western infidels (kafir) having the audacity to critique the Qur’an and/or challenge Islamic culture as a whole.
So, congratulations, Islam! You’ve managed to oppress yet another infidel into silent submission thanks your religion’s all-too-typical-yet-unoriginal-heavy-handed scare tactics. In doing so, you aren’t doing yourself any favors, but simply creating new enemies – those who believe in freedom from the dangerous oppressive religions that continue to impede society today. Ironically, much of the book was devoted in (partial) defense of “mainstream” Islam, showing how fundamentalists (much like their Christian counterparts) go out of their way to pervert certain texts to support their own political/tribal ideologies.
For all of the moderate mainstream Muslims who might be offended by anything I’ve said here, I feel for you. The same way I feel for moderate Christians who are constantly lumped in with the likes of Fred Phelps, Franklin Graham, and most recently, Josh Duggar. But, let me just remind you – it’s still your religion, not mine. Sure, sure – you can distance yourself as much as possible by claiming that self-described Islamic terrorists are “not real Muslims”, but just as I reminded my Christian friends back in my days of ministry, silence is agreement. As such, if you have a problem with “radicals” giving your religion a bad name, the problem is yours, not mine – speak up! While I no longer have any fear of Hell (or Jahannam), I do fear the actions of humans, carried out in the name of conveniently elusive gods made in their own primal images.
I would like to state emphatically that this project is not being cancelled out of any sort of respect for any irrational ancient religions that threaten to silence critical thinking and/or satirical questioning with death. No, it is being cancelled because of very rational fears brought on by the reality that such threats (and actions) are still carried out today – in 2015 – right under the noses of a modern society in the light of day, all in the name of [a prophet nobody has ever met who made a series of unprovable promises in exchange for their willingness to kill to prove their devotion].
As much as I’m frustrated to live in a world where it’s still necessary to “kill” creative projects to keep from being killed, as Penn Jillette said regarding Islam, “The worst thing you can say about a group in a free society is that you’re afraid to talk about it.” So, we’ll let the cancellation of this project speak for itself (for now) and I will join the long list of “cowards” who’d rather enjoy a glass of wine with family and friends rather than dying over… a book that has already been used to end millions of lives and silence many more.
Cheers to reason,
– Horus Gilgamesh
Therein lies the problem, moderates not policing their own fanatics, yet the same can be said of Christianity. Fanaticism does not really have anything to do with religion, it it simply the tool used in their desire for power. Politics is another ‘system’ that is corrupted by the few to the detriment of the many.
Fanaticism is integral to many religious texts. Until this changes, I doubt very much that religion and what you call fanaticism can be honestly divorced from eachother.
Please show me the part of the Quran that says “Kill everybody that offends you the slightest.”
All non believers are an offense to Islam and must be killed.
Quran 5:33 is usually the verse used as justification here, with attempting to cause Muslims to question their faith, whether actually doing so or just being perceived to do so, being regarded as waging war on Allah.
Depictions of Allah are punishable by death. Are you high?
Nope, don’t see the part of the Quran that says that.
I will concede that nowhere in the Quran does it specifically say that you cannot depict the prophet without being murdered for it. However, for simply disbelieving the Quran does mention that you should be murdered and even instructs believers to murder nonbelievers
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/Quran/2/index.htm#191
Ergo, The Quran does instruct believers to murder people like Horus Gilgamesh, the Author of this great book in the Awkward Moments series.
No it is not, its only prevalent in islam, no where in the Judeo-Christian world does it predicate violence or any of the vile disgusting ideologies of the quran, and any other religion that did follow fanaticism has long since faded into history, recognizing the facts as they stand today is the first step in finding a fix for what is becoming a soon to be major cataclysmic disaster that will soon engulf this planet like we have never seen before.
You should look into 1) the killings of abortion doctors and workers by American Christians and 2) the LRA in Africa, along with many other African Christian militias that use both fanaticism and child soldiers.
TL;DR You’re wrong.
You are talking of very small factions of ignorant fanatics, not government orchestrated rule of law such as islam, they not the rule of thumb in Christianity, while with islam fanaticism and the quran are the rule of thumb, you cant compare the two in any way or form.
If it were up to Fundy Christians (a sizable portion of influential people in the US), the Government would enact the rule of Biblical Law.
As for the predication of violence as mandated by the Bible, there are plenty of rules about beating slaves, selling women, taking virgins for yourselves after destroying a country in war, treating non-believers as inferior, hating your family, infanticide, genocide, etc.
So if you have a version of the Bible that doesn’t condone or promote those sort of acts in the name of God, you should cite it so we can look through it and see how peaceful and progressive it is.
We can compare the two pretty well as long as Christians and Holy Text-Thumpers continue to preach about world-ending cataclysm and apocalyptic flames engulfing the planet.
Bloody cooks.
We just call it fanaticism because it is nuts to follow some of the teachings in the Quran. Most Muslims don’t think murder is a good idea, yet the Quran demands you be a murderer. Anyone who becomes a “fanatic” Muslim or Christian is just doing what God said to do. Nothing obsessive about it. To some people these ARE the rules, and once they come across murder they just can’t let it go. To them it is seen as a free pass.
Yes perhaps. That’s the same “free pass” that Christians give themselves for the atrocities they have committed, both in the past and in the present.
Tu quoque.
“Fanaticism does not really have anything to do with religion” utter hogwash. religion is inimical to that which is *not* fundamentalist, irrational, and violent.
I have read and re-read your comment, trying to understand what you’re really saying. I even looked up “inimical” in case it had a meaning I wasn’t familiar with. Nope. “synonyms: harmful · injurious · detrimental · deleterious · prejudicial” So rereading your answer it would read “religion is harmful (etc) to that which is *not* fundamentalist, irrational, and violent.” It seems like you’re saying religion is good for the fundamentalists and wackos, and bad for the peace lovers. If so, we don’t disagree, I’m just saying religion is only ONE of the tools the fools use to create havoc. Feel free to correct me if I have missed your point.
Fanaticism does not really have anything to do with religion, it it simply the tool used in their desire for power.
I disagree. Fanaticism more often than not is just taking the ideology (religious or otherwise) very seriously. Many fanatics are quite happy to sacrify their possessions and lives in the process, and so aren’t really interested in power.
Ah but there are different types of power. The power of being (feeling that you are) Righteous, for one, and just plain Right and everyone else is wrong for another.
It isn’t “fanaticism” it’s fundamentalism.
I’m not exactly sure what the moderates would do to control the fanatics and would like to hear what you would propose. If we are talking true fanatics they cannot be reasoned and likely separate themselves quite a bit from the moderates in many aspects including socially.
Let’s say I was a member of Religion “X” and I was a moderate or even liberal member. How would I stop the guy who shoots up a place or blows himself up when I had no prior knowledge this attack would occur and no association with this guy?
Don’t get me wrong, I’m no fan of religion but I just don’t see how we can police fanatics of any group.
Therein lies the rub, eh? I actually spent a large part of last week meeting with a few professional interventionists to discuss this very problem. It’s a bit maddening, actually.
Fundamentalists have the backing of its silent moderates. It seems to me that the best way for ‘moderate’ Muslims to change the discourse of fundamentalists is to speak out and denounce their actions, the problem they face is that to do so is to speak out against aspects of the religion itself.
We often hear that there are over 1.6 billion Muslims in the world (and only a small minority hold these extremist views – which is not in itself accurate), but extremists also claim the same figure. If you support the religion, then you indirectly support the actions of those who follow the teachings of said religion, whether you agree or not.
To remain silent is to be complicit.
“If you support the religion, then you indirectly support the actions of those who follow the teachings of said religion, whether you agree or not”
I don’t think that is a fair outlook. I mean I consider myself a feminist but I don’t think I would be to blame if someone who also considers themselves one firebombed a MRA meeting. Sure feminism isn’t a religion but ideologies can produce very similar fanatic results.
I also don’t think speaking out any amount against such acts would convince a fanatic that they shouldn’t. If anything lets say a violent feminist movement did emerge in these times I am pretty sure I would either be ignored, deemed not a real feminist, or even become a target myself.
Good point on the Westboro Baptist Church and other “Christian” groups like them across the world committing atrocities in the name of “God”!! I think these things talked about here are the reason many people would like “religion” to disappear off the face of the Earth!
Getting rid of the fanatics has always been a problem it seems since humanity began! It seems the more you try to ban them, the more it gives them power and more join their forces.
Christians themselves deem anything said against any of their denominations as “persecution” and reason to continue because “persecution” shows them to be “God’s” true followers to their thinking!! It is the same with Muslim fanatics! They love being hated! To their way of thinking it means they are doing “God’s” work!
We probably need to look at what starts and feeds these groups to actually be able to stop them. Even that would not be easy since many join the radical groups for a good many different reasons!! Even if you identify reasons, you then have to find ways to deal with each separate ones in order to stop people from following those paths!
This is, as most know, a very complex and complicated process! Each government then needs to invest the much needed time and large amounts of funding to accomplish anything in this field. Good luck with that!
But, until something is done, this will get worse and worse. Look how quickly the ISIS took hold! Even the US government did not expect that to escalate so quickly!!
With pretty much nothing is being done, it will either get much worse, or it will slowly peter out as new people stop joining, and the ones already in start to die off. That could be what the governments of the world are hoping for. In the meantime a good many good people on the Earth are killed off in horrible inhumane ways as we all sit and watch!!
I’d say you’re close in your estimation of Christians and persecution. It’s not that we love being hated. We simply recognize that there will be some people who hate us. I’m sure some of us believe that being hated is proof that we’re doing God’s will, but that is not a universal, Christian belief. Some of us recognize that we can do the wrong thing, i.e. not God’s will, and still be hated for it. As for Westboro, I only know of them by the headlines they produce, but my estimation of them is that they are either VERY deceived by their leaders or they are not really Christian. As a Christian, I denounce their attitudes and actions as contrary to sound Christian theology.
What qualifies as “Sound, Christian Ideology” and how do you ground it? What difference would those grounds have from any other part of Christian Ideology?
Good questions. You’d probably get a variety of answers from different Christians too. My answer is that Westboro’s actions are contrary to sound Christian theology (again, just based on the headlines I read) in their declaration that “God hates fags.” God loves the world, but He hates our sins. If God hates “fags”, then He also hates anyone who sins (homosexuality is a sin as is gluttony, envy, cowardice, greed, etc.). I believe the doctrine that God hates sinners is contrary to sound Christian theology. It’s a Christian axiom to believe, “God loves the sinner but hates the sin.”
I ground that theology on the Bible. I believe it is the owner’s manual for humanity. If you follow it, things run fairly well in life. If you don’t, things mess up. I know, there’s a million different ways that Christians interpret the Bible, but the same holds true in most things. Doctors disagree on medical diagnoses; scientists disagree on scientific experiments; and Christians disagree on what specific Bible passages mean.
The answer to your last question falls back to my answers to the previous questions. It would be ideal if all Christians interpreted the Bible correctly, but as I said, we don’t. This is because we’re human, and we sometimes have wrong motives for our beliefs and actions. Another Christian axiom is, “We’re not perfect, just saved.” As a Christian, it is my personal responsibility to seek the loving, personal God that I know. As I do this, He reveals more and more of Himself to me. As my Creator, He knows what is best for me in any situation. The temporal circumstances may not be comfortable, but I am not to live for the present but for eternity. This world is not my home.
I have a few points to address when it comes to your rebuttal.
The first is the point you brought up about God hating the Sin and not the Sinner. That would be akin to saying that you hate the race, not the person who is that race. Shifting the burden of one’s feelings to a person’s nature as opposed to the person doesn’t change the bigoted or hateful nature of that ideology. If the grounds for your faith or lack thereof are based on any kind of hate whatsoever, then love comes secondary if at all. Treating morally upright individuals as though they are ill simply because they “sin” in ways that are not harmful to others is a very barbaric and foul thing to do. That’s why Homosexual rehab camps and Christian campaigns against gay marriage are hateful, bigoted ideas that remain hateful and bigoted no matter how many times you parrot the idea that a person’s nature is what you hate, rather than that person.
The second point I’d like to bring up addresses your point about the Bible being grounds for any kind of morality or ethics. You fail to define how refusing to follow Biblical law (specifically the more primitive and barbaric notions of sexuality, shellfish, and genital mutilation [circumcision]) leads to ‘things messing up’. As far as I can tell, there are areas where people follow the Bible and things mess up just the same. Are you arguing that there is some “one true way” to interpret the Bible, and doing so will somehow prevent things from ‘messing up’? Maybe you should define some of your terms and present some evidence for your assertions, because the Bible is full of situations where God orders his followers to ‘mess things up’ for other people so his people can have more land, virgins, gold, etc.
As a P.S. to that point, I’d like to point out that Doctors and scientists find evidence to back up their disagreements, and these usually lead to a greater understanding about science and medicine. By comparison, religious individuals disagree for emotional and personal reasons which leads to conflict without achieving a greater understanding about their own theology. In many cases, these different interpretations and opinions boil down to cherry picking scripture, which is not the same as testing and analyzing scientific experiments or theories.
To your last point, in which you boldly assume that there is one true way to interpret the Bible; In the same sentence where you state that the Bible and God appeals to your personal situation and so does the same for everyone, which contradicts the idea that there is one true way to interpret the Bible; I would like to say that the Bible has no correct way of being interpreted. It is a book of subjective myths and stories which convey a general idea of needless sacrifice and masturbatory worship of certain characters in that myth.
As long as there are people who assume that human nature is an illness, that earth is a temporary home, and that life exists to suit their imaginary friend, there will always be people who are willing to fight for the equality of all people, the betterment of life, and the preservation of this planet that every human being calls home whether or not they like it.
First, sin is a choice. Race is not. So I do not agree with your analogy. Despite our “nature”, we have a choice. I sometimes feel like doing things that I personally find morally objectionable, but I choose not to do them. It is in my nature to do them, but I still have a choice. Recognition of morally objectionable behavior is not hate. If it were, then you are guilty of hate as well. (These are my comments are reading your first few sentences.)
(These are my comments after midway through your first paragraph.)
You obviously have no intention of having a discussion. You simply want to spew your own hatred of anything with which you disagree. You are the epitome of the liberal/progressive haters. You cry tolerance, tolerance while you refuse to tolerate any opinion that is contrary to your own. I tried to have a civil discussion with you, but you defaulted to hatred. Try looking at yourself in the mirror. You are so filled with anger and hatred, and you refuse to even listen to another opinion. I really feel sorry for you. This “discussion” is over.
Firstly, homosexuality (which you described as sin) is not a choice anymore than heterosexuality is. If you walk into a bedroom with an attractive female and an attractive male both laying nude in two seperate beds, you would not be able to choose to be attracted to the male. You would not be able to choose to be attracted to the female. Your sexual desires are not your choice, and what arouses you is very much beyond your control.
Secondly, you have yet to provide a sound basis for what you call a morally objectionable action. Especially since homosexuality (which you label sin) is not an inherently harmful nature. Secondarily, recognizing harmful behavior (of which, again, homosexuality is not) is not the same as hating it. But you made it very clear through your own skewed beliefs that God Hates it, as opposed to recognizing it. Furthermore, recognizing an act is not the same as condemning it. God condemns what you call sin, without describing how it is harmful or providing sound reason to consider it morally objectionable.
Now onto your willingness to give up this conversation; I have every intention of having a discussion. This is why I addressed your argument point by point, and gave your argument the kindness that you gave mine. I tolerate your bigoted and barbaric notions of human nature, and am willing to discuss them. You may call me what you wish, but nowhere in my paragraph did I presume to hate anything, while your beliefs require you to hate certain aspects of human nature.
If your last note in this dismal song you call a discussion is to ‘feel sorry for me’ and call me a hateful liberal, then I welcome your concession and hope you walk away as proudly and arrogantly as you wish. I will continue to apply what I’ve learned from your lack of intellectual integrity to other conversations with other religious Apologists who fail to back up their opinions and beliefs with anything substantial.
Good day to you.
I disagree that one’s sexual desires are not an option.
You also have not provided a “sound basis” for your opinions.
You cannot prove the homosexuality is not inherently harmful.
The bottom line is that we have different criteria by which we choose to believe what is and what is not the foundation for any moral standard. You continue to judge me and make rude comments about me and my beliefs, but that’s all you are doing. You aren’t proving anything except that you appear to be a very angry and rude individual.
Again, I wasn’t making any argument. I was simply answering your questions! You were not being kind at all. You still accuse me of being bigoted and barbaric. That is not kind. Can’t you see this?
Your disagreement doesn’t even come with anecdotal evidence.
The onus is on you to prove that it is harmful.
Sure, morality is subjective and ethics is slightly less so. To ground one’s morals in reality and demonstrable fact, however, leaves us with less room for interpretation as to what is right or wrong. In this way, there is zero reason to believe that any sexuality is inherently wrong.
All of my comments are compliments compared to the notion that someone deserves to be condemned for the way they are born. You condemn individuals and their natural sexuality by using God as a mouthpiece and you call me rude and angry for considering those notions bigoted and barbaric, when according to you it is God that hates the nature of these people. I don’t need to prove what you’re already proving for me.
As for your cartoon, I’m going to respond with my own political art piece highlighting the Biblical definition of marriage.
I hope this sheds some light on why homosexuals ‘redefining traditional marriage’ is not as wrong as ‘traditional’ marriage in and of itself.
joedallas.com should provide some “anecdotal” evidence for you. If you don’t want to look around his site, you can call his office at 714-508-6953.
“There is zero reason to believe that any sexuality is inherently wrong”… I don’t have time to give a thorough explanation of why I believe the Bible is the best basis for truth and morality, but when I read that homosexual behavior is wrong, I believe it. If homosexuality were the norm, humanity would have ceased to exist therefore nature itself demonstrates that it is wrong.
You continue to make your opinions sound as if they are demonstrable facts when they are not. That is my point. They are literally nothing more than your opinions. You demand I prove my beliefs while not proving yours.
I’m not condemning anyone. I really don’t understand why you say that. I simply say that a certain behavior is wrong. God doesn’t hate their nature. He hates behavior. There is a difference.
In reference to your cartoon… those passages either provide instruction on how to behave within the morality of that culture OR they simply tell us how people behaved. The comments made along with the passages are literally that, commentary, without proof.
Jesus tells us – “But from the beginning of the creation, God ‘made them male and female.’ ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’; so then they are no longer two, but one flesh.”
Your blowhard rhetoric connotes the usual lack of scholarship of religion motivated animus against LGBT minorities. I have taken the trouble to research for you a few links that lay your misinformation dead as a doornail.
Read on:
American Psychological Association, which with over 173,000 members is the largest professional body of its kind in the world:
http://www.apa.org/helpcenter/sexual-orientation.aspx
American Medical Association
http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/about-ama/our-people/member-groups-sections/glbt-advisory-committee/ama-policy-regarding-sexual-orientation.page
American Psychiatric Association
http://www.psychiatry.org/lgbt-sexual-orientation
American Pediatric Association
http://www.clgs.org/official-statement-concerning-homosexuality-american-academy-pediatrics
The University of California:
http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_mental_health.html (not a mental disorder)
Size of LGBT demographic:
1. http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/what-percent-of-the-population-is-gay-more-than-you-think-5012467/?no-ist
2. http://www.nber.org/papers/w19508
Evolutionary imperative for homosexuality:
1. http://chronicle.com/article/The-Evolutionary-Mystery-of/135762
2. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-26089486
Genetic predisposition:
1. http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn26572-largest-study-of-gay-brothers-homes-in-on-gay-genes.html#.VHETjMlqxZ4
2. http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/gay-gene-is-only-one-part-of-the-story-in-determining-sexuality-30008711.html
3. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/technology-science/science/homosexuality-dna-say-scientists-3145703
4. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2559794/Could-EARWAX-reveal-youve-youve-eaten-GAY-Scientists-say-substance-overlooked-source-personal-information.html
Gay twins:
1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjFXP-5Mxis
2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3K0CJ8usPU
Homosexuality in animals:
1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUwza5Grxos
3. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2570161/Anyone-spot-Simba-Lion-cubs-dance-playful-scenes-South-African-savannah.html
4. http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/croatian-brown-bears-wildlife-sanctuary-are-six-year-same-sex-relationship170614
5. https://plus.google.com/+Iflscienceofficial/posts/K5PW9wVAFk2
But
let’s not stop with the APA et al – here is a sample list of other, US
based organisations that are known to support and recognise LGBT as
natural members of the human race:
The United Nations, American
Anthropological Association, World Health Organisation, Child Welfare
League of America, National Association of Social Workers, North
American Council on Adoptable Children, American Psychoanalytic
Association, American Academy of Family Physicians, American Association
for Marriage and Family Therapy, Council on Child and Adolescent
Health, American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry, Mental
Health America, California Psychological Association, American
Counselling Association, American Sociological Association, American
School Health Association, National Association of School Psychologists,
not to mention countless universities, local governments, labour
unions, and virtually every human rights organisation that exists
including Amnesty International.
I reject the religion of secular humanism, which is the worldview of each organization you mention, as a false belief system. BTW, you may refer to me as Doctor., a title which I have legally and meritoriously earned. So please do not assume to lecture me about scholarship.
We can play dueling links all day long. It’s a waste of both our time, because neither will provide proof sufficient to change the mind of the other. You have your worldview, and I have mine. However, if you dare, listen to this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHRP0I2SrVs
And for your information, Jesus never spoke against gays or same sex relationships, however he DID preach against divorce, likening it to adultery. The biggest threat to marriage isn’t gay people marrying, it is straight people divorcing. Roughly half of heterosexual marriages end in divorce. Fix your own world up before trying to meddle in ours.
I do not disagree with your comment regarding divorce. In fact, it is because the church did not maintain a Biblical morality within itself that the LGBT community has been successful in persuading society to move from a Biblical morality to an existential morality. The church in essence became irrelevant as it offered no clear distinction between itself and the rest of the world.
Regardless, I am not meddling in “your world.” It is God’s world, and He has provided a serious of natural laws by which you and I, His creation, can enjoy life, peace, and happiness for all eternity. I choose to follow those laws as best I can by the power of His Holy Spirit through Jesus Christ Who strengthens me.
If there’s an eternal truth that exists, you have not yet demonstrated it or even come close to conveying it. There is no reality in what you have failed to demonstrate. I don’t need to contact a man who pretends to speak for a mythical character from a religion that came out around the time the Chinese were domesticating dogs and the Germans had invented sex toys. So you can keep his number and his link to his business.
I seem to remember Jesus also saying to sell everything you own and give the proceeds to the poor if you really want to achieve eternal life, yet here you are conveniently ignoring those words and clinging to the ones that seem to support your own prejudice. Oops, i’m sorry, i meant “God”s prejudice.
I’ll watch and address that video you posted in response to Derek, on the condition that you watch and address the video that I’m about to post as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzzORZhnCao
The author contradicts himself in that there are 8 steps provided by Jesus to get to heaven. In the first step, Jesus provides the way of eternal life, so the premise that there are 8 steps has been proven false after the first minute.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPYRXop7aPA
Actually, that’s not a contradiction, because the other steps are also quotes from Christ which provide additional instructions on how to get to heaven. You really should pay attention to your “Savior”s words if you’re so keen on quoting him. Since you were so gracious as to view a minute of the video, I will address a minute of yours.
In the first minute of your video, a sycophantic student asks a leading question, in which he asks why Christians should believe the Bible, as opposed to the text from any other religions.
To which, I suppose, I have a few questions to address that point.
1. Which Bible? As there are countless editions, translations, reformations, etc.
2. What authority does this businessman have for answering questions about an entire demographic using the Christian mythology’s God as a mouthpiece?
3. Why should his answer have any impact on the perspectives of any human being that does not use God as a mouthpiece for their own prejudices and selective reading habits?
I hope my questions don’t come across as ignorant, but since I only watched a minute of your video (fair is fair!) I know nothing about this man or why his beliefs should matter to anyone.
That’s great – thanks for sharing!
Your argument does not hold water, even if as you claim that gays are a natural order of things which is scientifically impossible, its the act of homosexuality that is the sin and not the thoughts they have or the facts that they are attractionally challenged people, their attraction handicap is that of a diseased and perverted mind nothing more, and that is something that G0D will forgive, just like a serial killer, if they are able to oppress the urge and refrain from killing they will not have sinned and will not be punished for their thoughts.
But any act or collusion of action such as liberals supporting the and enabling the action, there will be no forgiveness for this and the reprisals from G0D will be harsh.
As to the act of marriage, its all hype over nothing, if gays want to get married let them, it should not be up to the state or the feds, marriage is an act of conscience and is a vow between two people before G0D who does not recognize either civil weddings or gay marriage in the first place, but if they are able to find an ordained minister to marry them, its between them, the minister and their belief system, but under no circumstances should gays, the feds, or the states be allowed to force anyone to participate in any way at all in any part of the gay lifestyle, commercially or otherwise.
When you begin with the premise that ” “Christian” groups like them across the world committing atrocities in the name of “God”!!”, not only are you being intellectually dishonest but morally bankrupt as well.
Not only is islam singularly responsible for more loss of life in the name of its sick ideology, so much so that it beats out all three major wars as well as the crusades and all the dictators such as Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and the Karmarouge combined in its toll of human destruction,
Please show one act of Christian or Hebrew violence carried out by any of these two major religious groups in the last 100 years, maybe then your point of view can be validated.
Nice how you conveniently “forgot” to mention the roughly 1500 years of organized violence, persecution and oppression by Christians against non-believers and followers of other religions throughout most of the known world. All in the name of God and The Holy Bible, of course. Yeah, you’re a really peaceful and tolerant lot, you Christians. Pot, please meet kettle.
And the idiot trophy goes to Lars Pallesen with his Obama relativity defense of the vile and insidious ideology of islam!
Please show one act of Christian or Hebrew violence carried out by any of these two major religious groups in the last 100 years, maybe then your point of view can be validated, until then you are a liar and are reverting to the dark ages of mankind to justify the barbarism of islam and liberals in the 21st century, who between them have wiped out over a billion lives in the last 120 years, your pathetic and weak argument does not hold any credibility at all.
There is one huge difference, and that is the quran, that is what makes islamic ideology different from anything else in creation, it also negates your example and your point completely.
That vile book dictates terms and conditions of acceptance to its followers, to a believer their is no other alternative but to follow their specified belief system, pious Jews obey the Torah, they keep the Sabeth and follow the rules of kashruth or kashrus, religious Christians and other denominations do likewise, but none other than islam advocate the taking of life of none believers, none other than the vile religion of islam target and advocate the complete annihilation and genocide of a specific religion such as the quran does with the Jews, not even the zelots from Westboro Baptist Church advocate violence against anyone.
Nice how you conveniently avoided to mention the roughly 1500 years of organized violence, persecution and oppression by Christians against non-believers and followers of other religions. All in the name of God and The Holy Bible, of course.
Yeah, you’re a really peaceful and tolerant bunch, you Christians. Pot, please meet kettle.
And I refer you to my last answer to you, stop trying to use dark age relativity to appease the current world and your despise of Christianity or the cycle will never end, its due to your kind of idiot logic that then justifies every single war that takes place in the future as somehow it is relative to ancient history, your ignorance will only lead to everlasting vendetta ideology which is even worse than religious ideology, and just as an incidental note, I am not a Christian, but when unlike your god Obama, now that the winds of change have arrived, I will side with the Christians even though I don’t agree with their theology.
Good point. I don’t either. I guess the best thing would be to stop indoctrinating kids first, after that … dunno.
For starters anyone giving money to Religion X, which is a requirement for most religions, should demand that the people in charge of the money don’t give the money to the people making the bombs – even indirectly.
Followers should also demand that Religion X’s leaders speak out against these acts, take actions to prevent the root causes (largely poverty and systemic discrimination), and actively provide treatment and support to those who fall into it.
it’s imperative that members speak up whenever someone uses the “no true scotsman” fallacy – but never more so than when it’s used against people following the actual texts of the faith (or core principals of political groups, movements, etc) – not matter how repugnant they, or most members, find those teachings.
And, finally, we have to encourage people question whether they really ought to be part of a religion if they don’t agree with most of the core principals – and more to the point when most people, and most of the leaders of the religion, do not believe in most of the core principals of the immutable word of god as stated in the texts held to be sacred.
I cannot and will not be part of a religion that is corrupt. They should vote with their feet and their pocketbook…leave the church as I did after the catholic sex abuse scandals were made known.
Sorry to hear. Woulda liked to have read this book.
Sorry you feel the need to cancel this book. It really sucks that you have to do this.
I can appreciate your frustration. I am scared of them too.
print it. put my name on it. give me half the royalities. and ill sit here and wait paitently for any fundamentalists that show up
You better have a big armory.
lets hope that one day you can feel safe enough to pull that book out of the Archives and provide your insights to all
here is the difference between this religion and Christianity. Your other books created outcries and calls for banning and also some threats. But this book draws enough threats of death that you take it seriously. it is how many see it.
Some cultures and practices are so eager to worship death that they would rush to meet it or inflict it on as many innocent people as possible.
You have to watch “Agora.” It’s a movie about early Christians taking over Alexandria. The difference between Islam and Christianity is that we had the Enlightenment. Women and heretics were still being burned alive well into Queen Elizabeth I’s reign for heresy. That’s why my Puritan ancestors fled England. You have to imagine Congregationalists being persecuted because they refused to tote the State Religion to understand how idiotic Christianity can be.
Your Puitan ancestors did a fair amount of persecution themselves. Quakers, for an example, were hanged and pressed to death under large rocks. The were locked in stocks, dunked in dunking chair (their version of water boarding), stripped to the waist and tied to carts which dragged them from one town to the next all the while being whipped by the magistrate. And of course the infamous Salem witch trials.
The only difference between the persecution in Europe and the Puritans in America was the location. We do not see these things today because Christianity is weak. If they were to gain control again the fundamentalist (dominionists?) would return to Old Testament justice in a heart beat. Religion is, and always will be, dangerous. None can be trusted.
Finish the project and have it electronically published, without intellectual property, upon your death.
dude, that way, they’ll hope you live a very long life !!! lol … that idea gets my vote,,, the old reliable dead-mans-switch
Heh… I actually do have a different “dead man’s switch” in my Advanced Directive. 😉
Or better yet, find an atheist (with no family to retaliate against) on their deathbed and ask them to ghostwrite it for you. What a great way to go out!
Nice
I would volunteer.
They will find and kill your relatives and friends
they would try, my family straight through my grandmother are all moderately armed, and take no shit.
Maybe you can publish segments of that book to various sites without necessarily charging, and then when all of this blows over you can release the book in it’s entirety and charge a fair sum for it? I know I got your book on Amazon even after you made it free.
It is too bad, would love to read it, but it is not worth the risk.
Bummer. I would have bought the book. Maybe you could continue the book under a pseudonym?
Print it in my name and pay yourself. No one wants to blow up anything in Poland. Putin might though.
You are a fool to not take threats of the Christian Right seriously. There are many groups prepared to attack in the name of Christianity. In fact, there are attacks by radical Christians all the time, they just dont usually get press in a way that lets the public know that is what happened.
Well, I should say, given the amount of angry emails and threats I receive, the vast majority are just bullies trying to get a rise out of people. Like the commenters over at The Blaze. Internet tough guys… 😉
That said, yes, I’m well aware that there are some very real scary characters out there.
Really, would you be so kind as to provide evidence of these Christian fundamentalist attacks, please show us where this is happening?
Well, I only have about ten minutes here so I can only scratch the surface.
National Liberation Front of Tripura out of India. They want to establish a Christian only nation and kidnap and murder non Christians all the time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Liberation_Front_of_Tripura
The ARmy of God is an anti abortion terror group that has been around since the 80s and has still had people recently committing acts of terror in this country in their name. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_of_God_(United_States)
Eastern Lighting was started in China, it’s leader now leads from the US http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Lightning
The Lord’s resistance Army in Uganda (Joseph Kony) kidnaps children to use as soldiers in their bloody was to establish a Christian Kingdom. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord%27s_Resistance_Army
Sword and Army of the Lord (defunct by that name now and I can’t remember the name they are organized under now) is a white supremacist group that commits acts of terror in the name of god and of which Tim McVeigh was a member. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Covenant,_The_Sword,_and_the_Arm_of_the_Lord
THE KKK is also a Christian organization
Anti-balaka in CAR started in theory defending themselves against Islam and now have a goal of ethnically cleansing all Muslims.
The IRA and other groups in Northern Ireland such as the Orange Volunteers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_Volunteers
Christian Identity http://archive.adl.org/learn/ext_us/christian_identity.html?xpicked=4&item=Christian_ID
Again, I didn’t have much time here so I just scratched the surface with the most well known ones, but there are far far more.
Interesting that you are only able to point to small pockets of fascism most of which are no longer even around, but nothing at the main stream religions, unlike islam that has 58 states of government enforced islamic religious fanaticism, other than islam there is no government or mass church leadership ideology issuing decrees of death for apostasy or for insulting the religion, not one ounce of your argument hold true, nothing in the hundred years compares with the mass orchestrated murder and oppression of hundreds of millions of people, time for a grip on reality because what is coming down the pipeline is a thousand times worse than anything we have ever seen before.
All of those organizations are around, one goes by a different name. The church leadership for National Liberation Front of Tripura does call for mass deaths, and carries them out. I guess you didn’t do any research before you replied. For example, in regards to NLFT their goal is almost exactly the same as ISIL, ” The National Liberation Front of Tripura (or NLFT) is a Tripuri nationalist Christian Terrorist organization based in Tripura, India.[2][3][4][5] The NLFT seeks tosecede from India and establish an independent Tripuri state, and has actively participated in the Tripura Rebellion. The NLFT manifesto says that they want to expand what they describe as the kingdom of God and Jesus Christ in Tripura.[6]”
Their long term goal is to succeed and continue to spread their empire. They are viscous killers and are lead by the heads of the church. Since you clearly did no research if you think these groups do not exit any longer there is no point in engaging you. As I said before, those are the ones I thought of off the top of my head. There are many more.
PS_ the are tons of religious churches (we call them cults here) who marry off very young girls, fight against the government, push for Christian law to become law of the land (hell, even some more moderate Christians do that) and members of their organizations commit crimes of terror. They are reported as lone wolves often and their affiliations are not often mentioned in the media. Christians also pushed out traditional religions in Africa, quit violently, and some still do in the same way that the Muslims did. Now, do some actual research and I will be happy to discuss the matters with you. You will notice in none of my comments did I deny that Islamic terrorist were a HUGE threat. I stated that people were foolish to not take the threats of Christian terrorist seriously and I believe there are a lot of people in OK that would agree.
Firstly I never started any discussion with you, you butted in with multiple fallacious arguments presenting comical little sects and cults as comparable with the dangers of a half a billion strong islamic force hell bent on world domination, all while trying to make out that Christianity is some great threat to the world.
Your argument is a joke, your focus on the National Liberation Front of Tripura leads me to believe that they did you some harm and if they did I am sorry for this, but the NLFT is nothing more than a terrorist group that has less than a 1000 members, they are a bunch of nationalist savages and murderers running around the northern provinces of India looking for revenge for past violence against them and trying to get a following in an attempt to gain succession from India, but so are more than a dozen other groups of ignorant secessionist fools running around the provinces of India looking for succession, none of which other than the insurgency in Kashmir are a serious threat, and the only reason the insurgency in Kashmir is such a great threat is because it is backed by the muslim government of Pakistan.
As to there being a serious and credible threat from the Christian world, no there is not and you are dreaming if you think there is, the only threat the world faces is the rise of islam, it is a cancer growing at a rapid rate, and the need to stop it grows more incessant every day.
Since I do not accept your premise that there are any Christian groups that pose a major threat to the balance of power in the world, and since I did not ask to do so, I agree that there is no point in engaging in this discussion any further, we are done.
You can use my name and face as the ghost writer. Fuck those savage Klingon bastards. This book needs to be made. I can take one for the team!
I agree with your self-assessment of cowardice.
So sorry that you are unable to complete and publish your book. That our Supreme Court said a business did not have to provide birth control because of “sincerely held beliefs” is despicable enough. That religious/fanatics threatens you with death because of clarifications of their “holy book” makes me sick at my heart and stomach. I hope that one day you can indeed publish this because it needs to be out there.
Not “unable” but fearful. Atheists can be cowards too.
Atheists are always cowards, after 20 years of military service I have never met an exception to that.
Well, I received my commission nearly 30 years ago, and have been an atheist even longer.
I have met some real fools in the military though. Present case included.
Only an idiot isn’t afraid. Courage is being afraid, and doing it anyhow.
LOL and who said anything about not being afraid, everyone suffers fear that’s a given, its how you conquer or overcome it in the face of overwhelming odds, its that which make you either the accidental hero of the day or one tough SOB, this is why Horus Gilgamesh position is very disappointing, he needs to do the book.
Seen my share.
Not much to fear, merely being an internet troll, is there?
So says the retard passing the comments, with 14 deployments in 20 years I have done my bit so that foolish men like you can have the write to trash other good people, as for that claim to a commission of 30 years, I don’t for a second believe it, no officer would ever be so disrespectful or insulting as you are, and no officer I ever served under that had faced combat has ever come away from it not believing in something, had you ever been in a hot LZ under serious enemy fire and your own mortality, you would have found yourself believing in something very fast indeed.
Ah yes, ad hominem, final refuge of the intellectually challenged.
Believe what you wish.
The “there are no atheists in a foxhole” canard is just that. Feel free to look it up, if you don’t understand the meaning thereof.
And, I believe in plenty. Just not in your silly superstition.
B/S you believe in nothing but your own worthless but perceived superiority, all you do is make up more b/s as you move along, you twist and lie through your vile atheist teeth at every turn, no where did I say that there are no atheists in the military, the same as I never said that soldiers are not faced with dealing with fear, as to attacking your charterer, you would need to have one first for me to do so, beyond that I really don’t give two hoots who or what you think, you are a wast of time and energy, as to the rest, you definitely don’t have what it takes to be either an officer or even an enlisted man in any mans military so we are done.
I must assume, from your general lack of critical thinking skills that you are (were?) enlisted.
Such lack of respect for your senior is appalling.
Shame on you.
Let me get this straight. You tell us that you were NOT saying that there are no atheists in the military.
Then, you backpedal and state that “as to the rest”, no other atheist has the stones to be an enlisted man.
Your own prejudice has you foaming at the mouth and spinning in circles. What tricks will you do next?
Wow you are one seriously illiterate dumb f**k, when did
“as to the rest, you definitely don’t have what it takes to be either an
officer or even an enlisted man in any mans military so we are done.”,
become:
“as to the rest”, no other atheist has the stones to be an enlisted man.
Crawl buck under your rock and learn the English language you degenerate ignorant troll, with dumb f**ks like you around its no wonder the country is going to $h*t.
Temper temper. With good, loving Christians like you around, who needs atheists amirite?
Seriously though, if you weren’t referring to atheists, what in the bloody hellfuck did you mean by “as to the rest”?
Because if you were to read your own context (something that many people recommend skeptics do) it would seem that you are still referring to atheists.
Sorry dumb-ass I don’t believe in christianity at all, your insane ideology has you spooked into way too many phobias about christians, even though they are of far superior quality a people than atheists, as for the the statement ending “as to the rest”, had you even the remotes grasp of the English language and had you a brain that was not dope soaked then you would have understood, like every reasonable person, that we were speaking of what he had said and that it referred to “as to the rest of what you said”, now that is what the hellf**k it meant you simpleton, so easy and yet for low IQ trailer trash like yourself, still so very hard, we are done.
This makes me sad. I have a lot of things going on in my head about your decision. I completely agree that it’s your decision to make, and that you live in a free country.
I find that I don’t support it.
See, there’s the American, patriotic adage that Freedom isn’t free, and that applies here. The solution to your angst about the threats is *more* people knocking their stance, not fewer. Someone has to stand if the tide would be turned… If not you, then who?
Your observations are brilliant and salient. They have the ring of Truth (yes, capital “T” Truth). They lance through the rhetorical nonsense cleanly and clearly.
You are well positioned with inertia in the philosophical discussions. Others will have to work so much harder to get to where you have achieved.
I spent four years in the US Marine Corps, and I know what emotions you’re feeling. I have been there. I also know that that makes me a special kind of crazy, so take my observations clearly in that light.
Lastly, I’m not trying to get you to change your mind. I’m just letting you know that there’s a cost to your decision in either direction… and while the cost to you for going ahead is threat of potential harm to you, the cost of your failure to act is the *definite* harm to others who will suffer because you failed to do what you were so brilliantly able to combat the tide… because you failed to stand up and be counted.
I hope you live a long life and remember this decision every day of it.
Fear not, Keith – I’m not going anywhere, just re-grouping to protect my family (and illustrator, and ex-Muslim contributors to the project who all live overseas in high-tension areas).
That said, I’m much more effective working behind the scenes than dead in public view. As I mentioned, my martyr days over made-up fantasies are over. 😉
Thanks for you service, Keith. Cheers.
Yes… remember each day that you made a choice that was supported by your fans and family. You have already done so much good in the world that if you decided to retire completely, we’d still be better for what you’ve created for us.
You have not failed to do anything. You have not failed to stand up and be counted. That post above was bullying and inappropriate.
Keep on keeping on and do what is right and safe for you and your family and colleagues.
this just shows in my opinion what a bigot you are.
will only fight and attack those who do not fight u back
Brilliant response. But I do feel Horace’s as well.
http://antitheismus.de/uploads/muhammad.png
I support you in this decision. I have purchased your other books and look forward to your future books. Yours is the only choice that counts.
It indeed says more about Islam, but if it is not well spread (the cancellation of the book due to Islamic fundamentalists), it will do no good to the cause (showing how irrational these beliefs are).
Maybe if this was broadcasted on the Thinking Atheist podcast with Seth Andrews.
wow we have selective freedom of speech in the US, so sad
I commend your decision. I am currently working to build a blog that will be seen as an attack on the good old boy belief in Southern Heritage (the “Heritage not Hate” bunch.) My wife and I have had discussions about just this sort of thing. It’s sad these days that you can’t share historical evidence with the Net without subjecting yourself and family to such threats. Please don’t stop what you do.
you can share anything, after
you let go of the desire to get
either fame or money from it.
why is the thought of anonymously
giving something to the world, free
as a gift, so alien to most people ?
Send me the book… I will do everything to get it published.
If you have a problem with your religions fundamentalists, what you really have a problem with are the fundamentals of your religion.
BOOM! I almost quoted a similar version of this, but I couldn’t find the source. Do you know it?
I wish I could remember, but even without an original source it is a truth that resonates with too few.
– Why did you shoot him?
– He hurt my religious feelings.
– What did he say?
– “The sun does not revolve around the Earth.”
– Those people who just don’t consider our feelings.
http://antitheismus.de/uploads/religioesegefuehle.png
I for one will miss your thoughts on Islam. I haven’t studied it was much as Christianity. Does anyone know how many people in the US have been murdered by Islamic extremists vs. Christian extremists. I know there have been several. preachers who have actually defiled Qurans with no direct attacks. Terrorism has always been a bigger issue in Europe… Well, I do respect that this is your judgement to make and I for one respect your decision. But man would it have been fun to read!
If you don’t want to risk dying for your opinion, please don’t ask moderate muslims to speak up against the radical voices of their religion. They are at even greater risk of being killed and by people in their very own community. Remember that the evil that is Islam first comes down on moderate and secular muslims and seeks to eradicate them.
#truthbomb
If the “Good Book” were any good, fundamentalists would be the best religion has to offer, instead of the worst.
When a book has one author, it’s easy to for the fanatics to identify that person and come after them. I can’t help feeling that what’s needed is for this book to have hundreds of thousands of “authors”. You’d have to give up your ownership of it, make it public domain effectively, but it seems to me that the message it contains is too important to be repressed. Freedom of speech and freedom of thought must be defended, and the only way to defend them is to stand together.
Dude, I’ve lived in Saudi most of my life, and never really had to give in to these lunatics.
Do you publish books (and satirical illustrations) that are critical and challenging to these “lunatics”?
I’m about as tired or evangelical atheists as I am of radicalized Muslims and Christians attempting to elect the next pastor in chief and I am a Christian.
At the bottom of every religious, political, psychological, or just about any system(including science) that attempts to define reality and proper moral character is a foundation of belief upon which all that follows rests. It starts with a belief(postulate) that such and such is this way and then builds from that. Ideas have been held true for centuries because nobody has been able to find fault with the foundation. And then suddenly we learn the world isn’t flat and we then have a new foundation and start again.
I am tired of “Christians” attempting to impose their values on others via the legislative system. I’m also tired of atheists ridiculing people of faith as if they have the one true view based on being unable to prove the contrary. If I choose, and I do, to believe in God then that is my business not yours. I do not need be saved from myself by your world view and the reverse is also true. You’re an adult and if you have the awareness of the belief in God and the means to explore that relationship and choose not to then that is between you and God.
I also do not need to force my moral standards on you unless I sincerely feel harm is being done especially to someone who is helpless. I would like to think that even and atheist feels a protective roll to others in the shared culture. I personally don’t think our grand experiment of everyone making up their own rules is working out so good.
Why don’t all you self righteous people just get off your high horse and just attend to your personal space in a way that seems right by you and leave other peoples personal space alone.
There are some exceptions such as intervening when someone is being assaulted or killed or when a minority group is being unduly separated out for some detrimental kind of action. And above all, don’t be hypocritical. I really hate hypocrites……..almost as much as internet trolls.
Why do you possibly feel the need anyway to move to publish a book that inflames the sensibilities of a large group of people. Is there a profit motive lurking in there or just a need to annoy people and stir up trouble because you can. What purpose can it possible serve.
The purpose Awkward Moments books serve is to demonstrate weaknesses in books many people think have some special authority, are magically perfect, and factual, in a light and entertaining way. If they provoke some rational thought and maybe even discussion, and help someone to more accurately discern between fact and fiction, they have served a good purpose.
Should the truth not be spoken, or legitimate analysis and criticism of “sacred” subjects not be published solely because it possibly “inflames the sensibilities of a large group of people” who don’t want to think about it?
If you are correct Garth than I reject that space just as I reject similar philosophies about such things as “open carry” of firearms. The argument there is that we are just taking on the burden of educating people to not be afraid of firearms……..weather they like it or not. I say this as a gun owner who believes in the right to keep and bear. I don’t believe in the right to be rude.
And I don’t think offending or provoking people with behavior that you already know will be taken as threatening or denigrating or insulting serves an “educational” purpose. It’s just self righteous self gratification in disguise.
By deciding that someones beliefs are fictions and then setting about shoving that viewpoint down their throats “for their own good” is pompous and misguided in the extreme.
You take too much on yourself Garth and it’s not your place. Maybe you might start by asking your target audience if they’d like an exposure to an alternate viewpoint and then honoring their answer. Try not to insult them in the process. You present what seems another form of “the white man’s burden” and wrap it up so nicely and looking so beneficent which is just a sham.
Persecution complex much?
None at all Mr. Troll. Do you have anything of substance to add to the discussion or just another troll opportunity to insult you couldn’t pass up.
Uhm… I didn’t even know that I could “troll” my own page. 😉
I feel like maybe Reemul is not familiar with the concept of how religions harm and impede the progress of society?
Talk about high-horses (and nonsensical circular logic)? Sheesh…
Please define your concept of progress. Are you talking material, philosophical, or (heaven forbid!) possibly even spiritual. All things can harm and our societies current obsession with the material at the exclusion of growth in other balancing areas of human life is what’s really damaging. We have no tolerance and no heart to grow with our capacity to make and chase “stuff” and so we damage ourselves. If you are so in favor of not doing harm or impeding progress then I suggest you start to endorse all the human needs to grow.
We make a lot of stuff and get fixated on it. If that’s not impeding progress I don’t know what is. I am reminded of the lyrics to a song………
“We have no knowledge and so we have stuff and
Stuff with no knowledge is never enough to get you there
It just won’t get you there”
When a society and it’s culture become narrow and exclusive rather than inclusive it will just die. That’s what the United States is doing now. We’re having our very own special slow motion train wreck. Enough the ride while it lasts. The generations to come will never really know the security and well being of the last 50 years or so. A period marked by a balance of many factors including religion.
Sorry to hear about that. Fundies Suck.
It sickens me to see this idiots to have so much power through fear. PLEASE, publish it anonymously. Share it on thepiratebay and expose the reality of what they really are. Just a humble follower/admirer of your work =)
Finish the project and make it available to a select few. Like your friends on Facebook. I would pay a bit more for it. Also, a secret availability of the ebook version.
Publish it for free as an e-book and anonymously. Spread it throughout the World Wide Web. But of course, consider changing the design layout as they may blame it to you if it looks similarly to your previous publication.
I’m really sorry Horus. I’m among the greatest fans of yours. You’ve been doing great stuffs, and I really salute your mind and the way it works. So rational, so intelligent, so fantastic, so logical. It can change the world, so let’s get this stuff published from space, or even from mars. The world needs it. For the sake of better earth, let’s get it published anyhow.
Wait, there is something very disingenuous about saying you don’t take threats from Christians seriously compared to those from Muslims.
What I’m saying is that there’s a difference between the vast majority of angry letters I receive from Christian bullies who will never leave their mom’s basement – and the silent-but-real threat of violence toward satirical cartoonists who challenge Islam.
I would’ve published it anonymously if I was in your boots
Pen name.
Sad that you feel the necessity to take such a step, but understandable. I think, however, you under estimate some of the Christian haters. I agree with you that we Christians need to speak up and denounce the radical fringe more frequently. I am still waiting for John Hagee and his ilk to denounce the folks who are pushing guns and Christianity, shooting as a solution to things they don’t like, and the like.
I think your Awkward Moments in the Children’s Bible is a very helpful anodyne to soothe the aches the Bible causes. You can’t heal what you don’t admit is ill.
May I just say what a delight it is to have an intelligent, thoughtful conversation without name-calling or bullying. It is so very helpful to hear others’ perspectives, even (especially) when they don’t agree with mine, and the mutual respect shown here makes it a worthy conversation. Would that our religious leaders and politicians could/would do the same. Thank you ALL.
Sad, but true…you made the only reasonable decision. Save the manuscript though!
Heh… I’ve got a box of 50 copies under my desk. 😉
Speaking as a U.S. Army combat veteran, an atheist, and a writer all rolled into one, I understand and respect your decision. I have dealt with some of these psychos face to face, and they are the real deal, man. Committed, batshit crazy, and willing to give all for Allah. I certainly don’t blame you for choosing to fly under the radar.
Freedom of speech doesn’t protect you from others who wish to retaliate against the things you’ve said. Especially not when a jihadist comes knocking with a machete in his hand. First and foremost, you have to protect you and yours. Good luck, and I’ll look forward to future publications.
This is very sad news. We don’t live in a truly free society if we can’t criticize or make fun of religion.
Meh…by their definition, you are already guilty…merely for talking about it…just sayin
If you cant publish, release it all for free on the web. or channel it through a false identity.
Tell people that a guy named Gabriel came and talked to you about doing this book. He appeared to you in a cave and claimed to be an angel with a message from a god. You told him you question the idea of this god but the Gabriel guy kept on talking. You decided to make a book about what he talked about so this is what you interpreted from what he said… that’s all.
Make it anyway, but publish it when it no longer matters what happens. This is what Copernicus did when he feared what the church would do to him if he published his revolutionary (no pun intended) ideas, so he published them on his death bed.
Cowardice. If you fear death so much it stops you from doing what is not only right but NEEDS to be done, then you are a coward. And all cowards are both doomed to and deserve to live with their shame, as a heroic death (i.e. standing strong in the face of your enemies) is now beyond you. Cowards. You lack the conviction of your beliefs. And, as such, you have invalidated your previous work. Now you will forever be the guys who only satirize easy targets. Again. Cowardice. Pure and simple.
Well, My2(anonymous)Cents – I’ll admit, I’m as much of an American cowboy as many with a shotgun by the front door and a handgun by the bed. However, that doesn’t really help my ex-Muslim collaborators who live in Paris and London. 😉
As far as being a “coward” – there’s this instinct of survival buried deep inside each of us. As such, it’s not a matter of cowardice, but strategy. I’m not going anywhere and will continue to speak out in different ways. Much like how this post itself has been viewed almost one million times in 22 countries now, there are more than one way to skin a cat.
As for “easy” targets… There’s nothing “easy” about targeting the moral majority that holds power of the entire government and media in our country. As such, there’s a reason I’ve been writing from a pen name all along.
Sincerely, the coward to speaks out all day every day. 😉
That sounds more like you think it’s acceptable to cave and put aside your ideals when the going gets tough. If you aren’t willing to die for your ideals, then why have them at all? And, the number of times this has been viewed would only be relevant if they were seeking public approval to be reassured of their strength in numbers, and, once assured, published the book with pride, confidence, and not a f*ck given to the sick hatred that would be the backlash from bronze age mutterings about skyfairies and their murderous child-molesting charlatan of a founder. You bow to that, you’ll bow to anything. And here’s the real point: You can live in fear, or you can die trying to stand for what’s right. There really is no in-between. Oppression must be stomped out by its victims, or they will surely stay victims. Speaking out is fine. It’s all some of us can do. But this requires action to back it up. Not inaction. If they truly believed in their book in the first place, they wouldn’t hesitate to publish it out of spite, if nothing else. But, they didn’t. They announced they were pulling the project because they got the very reaction they expected. As we ALL expected. And the fact that you EXPECT death threats and attempted murder to come for speaking out against that sort of tyranny, is EXACTLY why it MUST be spoken out against! Not by giving in. Not by letting them push you around like some psychotic psychopathic high school bully. I’m not saying don’t take the threats seriously. Nor am I saying don’t prepare for the worst. What I’m saying is this: Protect yourself and your loved ones, and publish the book. Make them f*cking work for it. By quitting, you did there work for them. Otherwise, it’s cowardice. And cowards most assuredly will live longer than those who fight back. And they will live a long life in fear and under someone else’s control because they were too scared to actually do something about it. And that is why we have to live this way right now. In fear. Well, I refuse. I won’t. And you can kill me, true, but you can never cower me. If I won’t bow to a god, I’ll bow to no man.
Soooooo, if Christians were to respond with violence and hatred, like the extremist moslums, you would cancel/retract your books about their faith? You throw stones at the tolerant, and you cowtow to the nut jobs. Nice.
Actually, Matthew – I’ve been known to cancel events thanks to death threats from Christians: http://www.awkwardmomentsbible.com/death-threats-from-christians/
As for the Kid’s Koran project – this was always a “side” project, not directly in line with the focus of this site, which, if you read the title and URL is specifically related to the Bible. 😉
Just like every other worthless liberal a$$wipe Mr. Dubious At Best AKA
Horus Gilgamesh, is nothing but a yellow bellied dope taking chicken
s**t coward who will run and hide at the first sign of confrontation,
liberals are the worst that society has to offer, they are lower than
shark s**t at the bottom of the ocean, pure unadulterated gutless
wonders, there is no future for liberals on this planet.
Wow. I bet you are fun at parties, eh? Everybody loves the internet tough guys.
Prove me wrong, grow a pair and get it done and published, dumba$$ comments about tough guys is not a stand point, the fact that you were quite happy to attack the bible knowing there would be no reprisals but then turn chikens**t at the site of an ignorant brain dead muslims threat, shows just how much of a worthless and gutless wonder you truly are, Pam Geller has more stones that you will ever have, this is a project that needs to be done, its an absolute shame you do not have what it takes to be a man of conviction, give her the book and let someone with courage put it out for you, but find a way to get it done or spend the rest of your life knowing that you are nothing but a coward.
When is your book being released?
I am not the one claiming to be an author or the hypocrite coward on the down low either, that would be you, I did my time fighting so that skanks like you can write your drivel in the first place, hopefully one of those good Christians out there will show you the same respect you showed them and do to you what the muslims have put the fear of hell into you for.
Really??? you are so afraid of people seeing you for who you really are that you removed my comment, you are a miserable little gutless wonder, but no doubt you did read it and between us you know every word I wrote is the truth, now stand up for what you claim to believe or live the rest of your life knowing you are just a small minded and spineless chicken$**t wimp, I do hope your children have something more tangible to look up too than this.
Huh? Your comment is directly above mine. I replied to it. It’s not rocket science, just look up. ^^^^
Hugs and kisses, sweetiepants!
Amazon self-publishing.
Heh… The problem isn’t getting it published, silly – it’s what happens AFTER it’s published. 😉
The point is, with Amazon self-publishing, it’s all e-book (IIRC). Therefore, no brick-and-mortar location printing or storing the books to be attacked.
Even atheists can be cowards.
I would purchase this book. I find it very disheartening that you were forced into this decision by the fear of the Islamic terrorists. By doing this, they win because they have successfully censored you through fear and intimidation.
What exactly do the “win”? We could have simply/silently pulled the project and just had it disappear from existence without a trace. Instead, we used the cancellation to make a statement about Islam that has now been picked up by several sizable “news” sites, giving more exposure of the problem to more people than the book itself probably would have ever reached.
This page currently has just over 1 Mil views compared to a book that might only sell a couple thousand copies. There’s a deliberate time and a place and a strategy to everything we do. 😉
That is a pretty good point 😮
😉 Make that almost two million views and subsequent conversations, thanks to folks like The Blaze, Christian Post, etc…
They can paint me as a coward as much as they want, but they’re talking about it. Mission accomplished.
you are a typical crhsitanaphobic pussy and a COWARD
giggles
How exactly does not releasing a book on the Qur’an make me “crhsitanaphobic” (whatever that is)?
Actually, you are in very good company. Copernicus delayed publishing his theory on the earth going round the sun until he was on his deathbed. A French priest wrote a scathing denunciation of his church and left his papers to Voltaire, who published them. However, everyone now knows that the earth goes round the sun, and that the Church has a problem with corruption, so the truth has a way of getting out.
No courage of your convictions eh? So much for your credibility. You are nothing more than a common school yard bully who beats up on the weaklings and then pees your pants when a bigger bully comes along to challenge you.
My convictions? Bully? Come on…
If we don’t stand up to this, then it will conquer us.
Good! I thought your Awkward Moments: Kid’s Bible was a hilariously well done piece of work, but I find the idea of the Kids Koran to be rather insensitive and irresponsible. We need to work toward bringing people closer together, not tearing them apart with needless antagonistic stunts. You’re better than those idiots in Garland who were trying to upset Islamic people for their own racist agenda. Keep up with what you were doing, don’t go down the dark path of racist hatred.
I’ll admit – the “idiots” in Garland (and AZ) and the idiots who threaten to burn the Koran are who make this type of book nearly impossible to pull off correctly. I have ZERO interest in being associated with those “idiots.” Cheers!
the Bible stuff is good work – but it’s worhteless since yo faggot ass niggas cancelled the quran-thing! cowards!
Wow. Stay awesome, Mr. Proud-To-Be-Offensive.
You are right, choose your battles wisely. There are better ways to fight that creed than having oneself killed. Hope the book will find its way into publication via the internet, with some misleading authorship. How about “Osama bin Laden”?